Full Transcript

Jason Kirby: Hey everyone, this is Jason Kirby here, excited to be hosting. Romil is joining us from Outdefine. Thanks for joining us, Romil.

Romil Verma: Thanks for having me Jason, it's nice to be on the show.

Jason Kirby: Great to have you. It would be great for you to give the audience a little bit about your background and what led you to starting Outdefine.

Romil Verma: Outdefine is my second venture-backed startup. I'm the co-founder and CEO. I'm building Outdefine with my dad—we have close to a 25–30 year work experience difference. People usually do this with their best friends; I'm building with my dad. Think of Outdefine as a decentralized, token-based talent community where people can find technology jobs—such as in Web3—learn how to get into the space, and earn the tokens we're launching. It's a user-owned community.

Romil Verma: My background starts back in 2013–2014 when I was finishing undergrad at Purdue. I had a scholarship—I came from India and didn't know how to pay for school, so Purdue paid for it. I studied with my professor on subjects like elliptic cryptography, which pulled me toward cryptography. I was very much a theoretical computer science student. That led me to a master's at Stanford where I researched blockchain and crypto.

Romil Verma: Back then AI was extremely popular—machine learning classes had ~400 students while the blockchain class might have 16. I stayed interested in blockchain. After that I spent four to five years at Google: first as a software engineer on Google Search for about three to four years, then as a product manager on Search. After Google, I co-founded Equi, an alternative investing startup helping people invest outside stocks and bonds. With three co-founders, we grew it quickly.

Romil Verma: In 2020–2021, I served as CTO, taking it to about $100M in AUM in under a year. I was always passionate about crypto and my father had a long-standing dream to build this kind of company. He came from the HR tech space. We spent two to three years iterating while he ran a company, then came together and built Outdefine. We raised our first round in 2022.

Jason Kirby: Incredible story. You came to the U.S. as an immigrant, studied at top schools, worked at Google, built a successful company, raised money, and hit amazing milestones—then chose to start a company with your dad. That's not a story you hear often. Tell me more about why you left Equi to start Outdefine.

Romil Verma: It was an inflection point. My father's company was operating more like a talent services business, and I wanted to focus on blockchain and crypto with more impact for users. We looked at how remote work felt inequitable for many people. The contrast between helping a few hundred wealthy customers grow wealth versus helping tens or hundreds of thousands get jobs—and earn money—was stark. That kind of impact aligns with crypto’s ethos of a more equitable future. So I joined my father, we raised capital, and moved forward. That was the motivation.

Jason Kirby: Let's talk about the raise. You announced a ~$2.5M seed in December, but it sounds like you actually closed several months earlier, likely before the major crypto collapse. Walk us through the timeline from starting the company to fundraising to closing.

Romil Verma: We announced in December after aligning with investors. At seed you have a promise and some traction, and you want to capitalize once your product, messaging, and token are in a good place. That's why we held the announcement. In hindsight, that coincided with FTX collapsing—you can't fight market sentiment.

Romil Verma: I started fundraising around February–March. As a first-time CEO raising institutional funding, it was a three to four month full-time process: talking to maybe 80–85 funds, getting all sorts of responses, and ultimately having four or five really believe. Once one ball starts rolling, others follow. We had two lead investors—Jump Crypto and TCG Crypto. Some took a month to a month and a half for diligence. Interestingly, the final $500k–$1M happened via 30-minute calls—the timeline compresses once momentum builds. We closed around June.

Jason Kirby: Did you build the product before raising, or raise to build?

Romil Verma: We already had about $400k of transactions because my father had been running the company a year prior. It wasn't just an idea raise. In 2022 the market had compressed from late 2021 highs, so the idea-only mega-rounds weren’t realistic. Traction mattered.

Jason Kirby: You met with about 80 VCs—how did you get those meetings? What was your strategy?

Romil Verma: Warm introductions were critical. None of the funds or angels came via cold outreach. Being present in the San Francisco ecosystem mattered. At Google, we were in our own world; once outside, community ties make a big difference. Communities like HOMedc and Zoogler (ex-Googlers) helped. Founders are generous with intros. Newsletter writeups led to inbound from VCs who later invested. Through those conversations, we even received an acquisition offer right before the fundraise. Warm intros work—but it’s a process, not a snapshot.

Jason Kirby: With warm intros, did you end up in rooms with the wrong people—meetings that were a waste of time?

Romil Verma: Not too much. We did our homework on every fund to understand fit. Some reached out and then went radio silent—likely gathering market intel. We avoided funds that had portfolio competitors. It's about finding true believers. Some conversations are pleasant but end with silence or a note that they backed someone else—that’s part of the process.

Jason Kirby: Right—ghosting happens. When did you get your first term sheet, and how many term sheets came in?

Romil Verma: We raised on a SAFE with a token warrant since we're building our own crypto token and investors wanted token exposure too. Two or three funds moved first. Having seasoned support was invaluable: my co-founder (my father) has taken an engineering services company public as a key leader, and a board member with multiple venture-backed exits advised us. Jump Crypto came via a newsletter mention and closed in about a week. That created positive signaling; TCG Crypto followed after deeper diligence.

Romil Verma: One choice we made: we kept the same terms for the last investor as for the first. In hot markets, founders often ratchet terms up; in 2022 that didn’t fit the market. The first checks took a month or more; the last one closed in ~30 minutes—signaling and clear terms make it a no-brainer and help you capitalize the company to hit milestones.

Jason Kirby: On structure—you mentioned a token warrant. For those unfamiliar, why include it and how does it work?

Romil Verma: Since tokens are core to how we incentivize the community—earning for participation, referrals, and helping others—investors wanted exposure to both equity and token upside. A token warrant lets them purchase tokens using the same invested capital. Some Web3 companies become DAOs or shift cap tables over time; a warrant gives investors participation across outcomes. Most of our investors are Web3-native; traditional marketplace investors often can’t buy tokens due to LP constraints.

Jason Kirby: During the raise, your father focused on product and transactions. Operationally, what happened while you were fundraising?

Romil Verma: I focused full-time on fundraising and iterating the narrative—the pitch is the product during a raise. My co-founder drove user and revenue growth. That division of labor was key. With a larger team in future raises, the process will differ, but at that time, he carried the operational load.

Jason Kirby: Fun question: since you’re CEO and fundraising, does that mean your dad works for you—or are you equals?

Romil Verma: There's mutual trust and respect. We each lead where we have expertise—fundraising, product, marketing on my side; strategy, operations, market execution on his. We take each other's counsel. We’ve put in the work over the past couple of years to make that partnership function well.

Jason Kirby: What really sucked about fundraising—what was most exhausting or frustrating?

Romil Verma: Mentally preparing for ambiguity and the lack of guaranteed success. If you set expectations like “I must raise X,” you end up playing against yourself. Weeks can go by without results. The antidote was to keep refining the pitch and accept the possibility of raising zero—especially since we had an acquisition term sheet we declined in order to raise. It’s tempting to take the immediate outcome; you have to decide decisively and move on.

Jason Kirby: I've been in that situation—acquisition offers arriving mid-raise. It’s a tough call. Why did you delay the public announcement again?

Romil Verma: We prioritized what was right for the company: revamp the product toward a token experience; clarify our vision beyond a jobs marketplace; and be ready to capture the organic traffic an announcement generates. We wanted follow-through, not just a PR spike.

Jason Kirby: What’s next—what milestones are you aiming for, and when might you go back to market?

Romil Verma: We run efficiently—with an independent board and experienced leadership—so we’re not burning huge sums monthly. We’re hitting milestones and growing the network rapidly. The goal is to scale from tens of thousands of users to hundreds of thousands, building a “LinkedIn for Web3.” Given tight markets across venture, we prefer to fundraise from a position of strength while continuing to grow. When hiring slows, we focus on growing community; as hiring returns, we drive opportunities to those users.

Jason Kirby: Final advice for founders raising pre-seed to Series A?

Romil Verma: I can speak most to seed: last year was tough; this year is tough too. If you need to raise, earlier may be better than later as markets can deteriorate. Be comfortable with flat rounds if needed; don’t obsess over valuation—it’s a vanity metric. Focus on how much capital you need to survive and grow, craft a coherent strategy backed by numbers, and secure one believer whose conviction catalyzes others.

Jason Kirby: Great nuggets: build community early for warm intros; have traction and efficient growth; and time the raise to your product’s inflection. Romil, this has been an amazing conversation—especially the father–son co-founder dynamic combined with a sizable seed round. Thanks for sharing your story.

Romil Verma: Thank you so much, Jason. Wonderful to be on the podcast.

Jason Kirby: For anyone following, what's the best way to learn more about you and Outdefine?

Romil Verma: I'm happy to connect with anyone who wants to deconstruct the fundraising process. Reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, or email—easy to find. Happy to help.

Jason Kirby: Awesome—we’ll link those below. Thanks again for joining us.

Romil Verma: Thanks, Jason. Take care.